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Post by ftm on Aug 27, 2008 22:04:24 GMT
Excellent post Hops. Sums up my feelings on the matter. Very disappointed with the boy Jones. Expected better from him.
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Post by hops on Aug 27, 2008 22:08:49 GMT
Right so about the other points i raised. Are you a politician as you seem to have side stepped the major points as i did not raise the red card incident at all, but while you are on that subject it was only done to have a pop at a player who at the time had not had a hearing - oh but wait several of your fans in the crowd heard Pope make the comment so it was already proved. No but wait none of those fans could write it down could they but i am sure they all loudly shouted about how they had heard Pope call LFW a >>>>>>>>>>.
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Post by ftm on Aug 27, 2008 22:18:04 GMT
I still don't see how anyone can take issue to the fact that we organised an anti-racism protest. At a time when a charge had been levelled against a local football player, it was crucial that someone took a stand to show that we condemn racism. I'm glad we did. Histon never have. Yes, and what timing. I believe that at that time of the protest the hearing had not even been heard. Cambridge Utd felt so strongly about the subject that their representatives for the hearing could not even be bothered to turn up. Not really fair for them to decide a man was guilty before even hearing any evidence. But don't let that ruin a good chance to put down your rivals. And on the issue of Pope 'retiring'...did several United fans not say on here, as soon as it happened, that he would definitely be back. It was painfully obvious. You really are so incredibly naive. The United fans spouting their patter on here had little or no evidence to back up their claims. Sooty apart, few of them had the guts or inclination to attend the Histon fans' forum. Even now the Utd fans appear to be forgetting Sooty's write-up of the evidence presented at the hearing. The appeal could not have over-turned the original hearing because only new evidence can be considered. The FA are a law unto themselves and make up their own rules and that makes this particular situation grossly unfair. No court of law in this country would have taken this shambles of a case seriously. As a Histon fan I hold my head up high knowing the football club is in the right and have acted properly. This whole sorry episode has been an utter travesty and I feel desperately sorry for the player involved. It is being seized upon for point scoring by naive Utd fans who ought to know better but are no doubt being influenced by those idiots on their own message board, none of whom I bet would be able to list the facts of the case. No doubt Craig Pope will have to suffer the abuse from the ignorant masses. He knows he is innocent, those who have seen the video and heard the facts know he is innocent. Unfortunately for the p layer their are still ignorant people out there who are not prepared to take in the facts. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2008 22:18:35 GMT
You have done similarly, to be honest I was quite taken aback by the comparison between a thread title penned by Sooty and perhaps the most ill-advised t-shirt slogan ever! I ask again...was that serious? If so, I cannot take anything else you say seriously.
I've 'side stepped' the points which refer more directly to Will, who, by the way, is not here to defend himself. I cannot actually see where Will has contradicted himself, the only inconsistency is in his tone, and that makes sense because peoples moods change, so we can forgive him that, surely?!
How you can presume to know why the protest was organised is beyond me...you don't know at all. It was organised to show our support for Leo and to condemn any kind of racism. The charge was out in the open, and be it verified or not we wanted to show that we, as a fanbase, were against racism.
The FA found Pope guilty, everybody was happy for the matter to be left to the FA, and then we would all make our judgement in light of theirs.
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Post by ftm on Aug 27, 2008 22:35:46 GMT
The FA found Pope guilty, everybody was happy for the matter to be left to the FA, and then we would all make our judgement in light of theirs. You just don't get it do you? Never let the facts get in the way of an opportunity, eh? If this sorry case had centered around a United player then we'd hear the squeals all the way into the next county. The Utd fans would be organising more of their little independent "judge and jury" protests. At least then I suppose the Utd fans would bother to look into the facts, rather than rely on hearsay. As I said before, as a football fan I honestly hope that such a miscarriage of justice never happens to any of your players. |
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Post by DJTom on Aug 27, 2008 22:38:28 GMT
I still don't see how anyone can take issue to the fact that we organised an anti-racism protest. At a time when a charge had been levelled against a local football player, it was crucial that someone took a stand to show that we condemn racism. I'm glad we did. Histon never have. Yes, and what timing. I believe that at that time of the protest the hearing had not even been heard. Cambridge Utd felt so strongly about the subject that their representatives for the hearing could not even be bothered to turn up. Not really fair for them to decide a man was guilty before even hearing any evidence. But don't let that ruin a good chance to put down your rivals. And on the issue of Pope 'retiring'...did several United fans not say on here, as soon as it happened, that he would definitely be back. It was painfully obvious. You really are so incredibly naive. The United fans spouting their patter on here had little or no evidence to back up their claims. Sooty apart, few of them had the guts or inclination to attend the Histon fans' forum. Even now the Utd fans appear to be forgetting Sooty's write-up of the evidence presented at the hearing. The appeal could not have over-turned the original hearing because only new evidence can be considered. The FA are a law unto themselves and make up their own rules and that makes this particular situation grossly unfair. No court of law in this country would have taken this shambles of a case seriously. As a Histon fan I hold my head up high knowing the football club is in the right and have acted properly. This whole sorry episode has been an utter travesty and I feel desperately sorry for the player involved. It is being seized upon for point scoring by naive Utd fans who ought to know better but are no doubt being influenced by those idiots on their own message board, none of whom I bet would be able to list the facts of the case. No doubt Craig Pope will have to suffer the abuse from the ignorant masses. He knows he is innocent, those who have seen the video and heard the facts know he is innocent. Unfortunately for the p layer their are still ignorant people out there who are not prepared to take in the facts. i have not seen the video |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2008 22:56:17 GMT
The timing of the protest was obvious - a charge had been made against a player in the locale, it was important that we were seen to take a stand. I imagine we would have done the same if it were a United player, not to infer guilt, but to show our feelings on the matter.
What my club do and what I do are seperate things, and we may have different values, and I may question theirs...try it some time, it's liberating.
It's interesting that you could bring yourself to be so critical of the facts as analysed and presented by the FA, who found Pope guilty, and yet so utterly unquestioning in your consumption of the 'facts' as put forward by your club. I speak of the supposed facts of the trial and the detail of Craig's supposed 'retirement' - you accept fully that he quit, and it was not contrived...and you accept fully that he just happened to decide to return when the ban was up. You accept that the Cambridge News just went with the Pope quitting story and it coincidentally detracted from the sting of the racism revelation...you accept...you accept...you accept...
Your club could tell you that Pope himself was racially abused and you'd probably accept it. I cannot marry this cynicism and criticism that you have with regards to the FA to your unthinking and ignorant acceptance of every single word your club says. It's absurd.
Sure, be critical of the FA and cynical of their decision, but why be so d**n sure that everything is as your club would have you believe? I'm saying this as much for your protection as anything else...start blindly accepting them as espousers of the truth, whole truth and nothing but the truth and you have strayed onto a path which will lead you to somewhere you don't want to be.
You really think Histon have come out of this shining like a diamond, untainted and dignified? I agree that some United fans will suggest it's worse than it is...but to suggest that Histon have dealt with it well and been completely honest is so unbelievably naive. I pity you for that, if it is so.
They formulated a plan to deal with this and acted it out diligently, hence it was so painfully obvious Pope would return. His retirement was a farce, and anyone with an ounce of brain matter knew it, and said so at the time.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2008 23:48:31 GMT
I was one of the doubters but what's brought me around is this;
The easiest option would have been to sack Craig as soon as the FA verdict was arrived at. Everyone would then have accepted it - make a statement that we don't want to be associated with racism in any way whatsoever. However this has not happened - they have backed Craig to the hilt and no matter what anyone says, the decision to do this reflects extremely badly on the club.
So you now have to ask the question why have they taken this route? Its not like we need Craig, in fact young Lanre Oyebanjo has proven to be a far superior player in his position the last 3 matches that Craig wont get his first team spot back in the foreseeable future - certainly long after his ban ends, if he ever gets his first team place back. In fact by sacking Craig it would have freed up some funds to try to get a very much needed holding midfield player in.
So the only possible explanation I can see for the stance the club has taken is that they strongly believe that Craig has been completely stitched up here; why else would they be prepared to take all this sh1t?
If you can think of another logical reason, Localfan then please tell me as I am at a loss?
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Post by stags08 on Aug 28, 2008 0:17:15 GMT
The FA found Pope guilty, everybody was happy for the matter to be left to the FA, and then we would all make our judgement in light of theirs. You just don't get it do you? Never let the facts get in the way of an opportunity, eh? If this sorry case had centered around a United player then we'd hear the squeals all the way into the next county. The Utd fans would be organising more of their little independent "judge and jury" protests. At least then I suppose the Utd fans would bother to look into the facts, rather than rely on hearsay. As I said before, as a football fan I honestly hope that such a miscarriage of justice never happens to any of your players. No, because we care enough to question our club and what goes on. There is no way we'd sit back and handle this in the way Histon have. Also, the fact you see it as us trying to put one over of our 'rivals', surely the club actually trying to do that yourselves? From parking spaces to an a conspiracy that our players were making it up, everything has been our fault according to officials at Histon. |
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Post by ftm on Aug 28, 2008 7:23:32 GMT
It's interesting that you could bring yourself to be so critical of the facts as analysed and presented by the FA, who found Pope guilty, and yet so utterly unquestioning in your consumption of the 'facts' as put forward by your club. I speak of the supposed facts of the trial and the detail of Craig's supposed 'retirement' - you accept fully that he quit, and it was not contrived...and you accept fully that he just happened to decide to return when the ban was up. You accept that the Cambridge News just went with the Pope quitting story and it coincidentally detracted from the sting of the racism revelation...you accept...you accept...you accept... I had intended to no longer raise to your rumour-based posts. However this one is a good example and sums up your lack of understanding of the matter perfectly. The facts were there for anybody to see who cared to turn up to the forum. A video was played several times and the real story of what happened at the hearings was relayed to the fans. If more of you Utd fans had joined Sooty at the forum then there would have been a few lightbulbs going on above your heads. Perhaps even an apology...? Who knows. My only problem with Histon was that the real story, presented with the full evidence to back it up (that bit is very important Localfan - and it's the bit you are missing utterly in your version of events that you spout) didn't come out sooner. A lot of the hassle, bad feeling and the misunderstanding and subsequent sour grapes from the Cambridge Utd fans could have been avoided if this information was made available earlier. Having said that I appreciate that Histon FC were placed between a rock and a hard place. Your posts and Will's posts on the other forums are littered with this sneering about Histon's PR and your ideas how the fans have been hoodwinked. If only you could have brought yourself to examine the evidence properly. Honestly, you would have made yourselves look so much less silly and bitter. |
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Post by sooty on Aug 28, 2008 7:29:28 GMT
WILL JONES IS INNOCENT!!
We all rely on what 'officialdom' tells us. I...along with Will...were 'victims' of this 'propoganda' battle too. Will's comments where he believes Leo heard something etc was all stuff proliferated during the delay between the original cancelled hearing and it taking place some weeks later. It was a void...and it got filled with garbage.
There are always 2 sides and more to every 'story'. We had one version of events with bits added on and inferred....it gave us the ability to judge wrongly when the forums go down and silence ensues etc. Jumping to conclusion we did not...we went along undertsanding being offered by 'officials'.
Our Chairman.....or ex Chairman by the time you read this post...has apologised I believe to your Chairman for his unprofessionalism in this matter. He acknowledges his clubs unhelpful assistance which proliferated the 'story' by them not turning up. The Fans Director Brian Attmore...has not apologised to anyone as yet I understand. However, he has paid the price for his 'management' of the situation.........as promised...X
So go easy on the innocent victims of circumstance...like I have on Craig. He has a 'guilty' verdict over his head....so have I and Will Jones for saying stuff that weren't exactly right...but we are all innocent and collateral damage.......can we all forgive each other?...X
LUV
SOOTY
X
...'ere DJ Ben.....get a side team together for the Derbys!!! We'll have a pen comp or summink at half time....trophy for the winners donated by Leo...Craig...and Rob......they'll all be up for it i'm sure......! Sort it out!x
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Post by ftm on Aug 28, 2008 7:37:19 GMT
Sooty - I just hope that Localfan and the other one with lots of 'o's in his name read that post. I'm not sure of their agenda but they gravely misunderstand the whole situation.
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Post by jasper on Aug 28, 2008 8:36:10 GMT
Well said FTM....and RW's reaction on Monday and the way he played most of the match with his head down also spoke volumes. Now can we all get back to the football and leave the barrack room lawyers from United to play Crown Court while we enjoy our non-league!  |
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Post by willjones on Aug 28, 2008 9:10:48 GMT
"There is one MAJOR fault with what Will has said and that is he states that Leo heard the abuse. FACT only ONE player heard the alleged comment and he was the one furthest away from the incident. If you or any other United fan wants to see the incident i am sure we can arrange for it to happen."
Spot on, Hops - I was under the impression three or four heard the comments and it was backed up by video evidence. I certainly didn't realise one of the United players was indeed a witness for the defense so to speak.
It was the void of infomation from your club, the deleting of threads then closure of message board, all looked as though things were being swept under the carpet...I was not being two-faced, I was saying the exact same things at the time on here but threads were being removed and the message board closed. I've been posting my forthright views on the 'net for over a decade now and will always say what I think.
I agree some have seen it as a points scoring excorsise - I mearly saw it as a massive shame for local football (and still do, the whole episode) and wish it'd never happened.
Not sure why people have seen fit to drag the whole issue up again, taking pops at me...? My tone and opinion has changed a lot since those posts were made and that's my right - like, I assume, those Histon fans who were saying they were going to hand thier season tickets back over the way the whole episode had been handeled...!
Cheers,
Will
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Post by JSmith on Aug 28, 2008 10:29:44 GMT
If you have the time to formulate such a post against another poster, then there is something seriously wrong. Fair enough Will did make those comments maybe in the heat of the situation, and with a distinct lack of evidence, but at least he's human enough to admit that his claims and opinions were wrong. Yeah it is a shame that Will said those things while saying other things here, I agree with FTM and Hops. But at the end of the day, making a whole thread about one person who posts on here is pretty sad.  Some people have some growing up to do...(coming from me yeah cheap, but the way some people have conducted themselves over this issue is disgraceful and embarrassing.) Sort it out!  |
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