Former directors

[Deleted]

THE FOLLOWING IS ALL PUBLICALLY AVAILABLE INFORMATION
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I remember that statement from the club ewc999. It is totally opposite to the figures submitted to Company House (which can be found on the CompanyCheck site without having to pay Companies House).

The link to the key financials is as follows:

companycheck.co.uk/company/05694326/HISTON-FOOTBALL-CLUB-LIMITED/financial-accounts

This is for the period 2012/13. Year 2013/14 is likely to be available by the end of Feb 15. The company does not need to submit the P/L (only balance sheet) in compliance with the small companies act. However, the total P/L amount appears on the balance sheet (shown as P/L account reserve)

Account history can be found by scrolling down the web page. It will require a PDF download if you want to see further details of each year account.

If you scroll down even further, you get the last few years (31/5/09 - 31/5/13) of the summarized balance sheet.

In summary:

1. the current liability stood at £517,576 on 31/5/13. At no time on the graph was the year end liability below this mark.
2. Page down to the balance sheet as of 31/5/13. - P/L account reserve stood at -£668,814 (loss). Again this has remained negative and of the same order of magnitude over the past few years. So I am not sure what the HFC statement was regarding "debt almost cleared".
3. I remember Angelo and others passing back shares to the club. I'm not sure how this was treated on the accounts. But best case looks like there is still a big gap to close, and could be worse.

I am waiting for the 2013/14 submission made by HFC to Companies House which cannot be later than the end of Feb 15.

In answer to your question ewc999, I am not sure how the club could make a statement at that time that the debt was nearly cleared. I'm sure the Fans Forum will give the board the opportunity to explain the accounting gap. I'm sure shareholders and fans will want to know.

In addition the may consider
1. the financial controller (Joy) recently resigned?
2. clauses were added to the Memo of Understanding stating that the club no longer had to provide details of the accounts to minor shareholders.

All interesting stuff. Hope it helps because its been bugging me for some time.

[Deleted]

This is the latest on Companies House records. 2013/4 needs to be submitted by the end of Feb 15 (within 9 months of the close of the financial year 13/14). Look at the current liabilities on this link(-£517,576). Because of the small companies act, HFC can opt out of submitting the details of the P/L. But the total has to be included on the balance sheet (page down and see P/L Account reserve = -£668,814)

I think shareholders and fans alike will be interested in these figures. The picture has been getting better, but at a significant deficit level.

As for the single figure debt statement from the club, I think the board need to be approached to get their view of the position.

[sooty]

Now that can be taken seriously Paul!x Perhaps friend coming out in the beginning with the pointers and your concerns as concise as you have in the above posts may have helped Histon fans understand where you were coming from...it has me!x
I do recall Russell insisting that 'the debt' was virtually gone on a BBC Cambs interview he did. We may be talking different 'debt'..... It was an amazing turnaround in a short space without any obvious new revenue......I remember thinking! That 'debt' may also have been tied into share issues with ex Directors and the like.....which I was lead to believe had been resolved to enable Russell to feel confident in saying such! Recent events as mentioned in this forum suggest different....perhaps?!

I certainly don't know any detail or have any evidence to support your concerns Paul. What I do agree with is your assertion that folk should empower themselves with the knowledge....if they care about saving/supporting their club....whoever!x

I went to get some petrol at Sainsbury's the other day. I walked in....and there was a man taking my money at the till who was given the responsibility to liase on behalf of fans....privvy to 'the truth' at Board level....and was party to transferring £70K of fans money into an account that basically paid bills for the club....all done fraudulently. There is a memorial 'garden' to commemorate that very happening....and all to show for that 'lost' money. He was a Director...and indeed Chairman for a while whilst we were in transition for a few weeks. Serving u petrol now.....yet pivotel in 'running' a footbll club. I....yup...me...was the only 1 who sussed he was a wrong un....outside of the Board. The then Board knew he was....they'd co-hersd him into 'embezzling' the money in the first place. Fans din't wanna know....so I dealt with it....and him. No I din't give him my money t'other day either. My point is....titles/Chairman....Fans Directors and good eggs......are all volunteers in the main and often not gifted with the required skills such 'business' a football club throws up. Dodgy environment at best.....do gooders in there......ain't got much of a chance I find...X Our own 'heads' of fans groups have looked after themselves rather than their electorate! So...anything is possible.....I reckon!x
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[Deleted]

I have to disagree Sooty. The accounts were submitted by the Board. It is sufficient evidence to support my comments as it is in satisfying the English legal process administered by Companies House(you wrote "I certainly don't know any detail or have any evidence to support your concerns Paul"). The rest of the business world would find this interesting. Also "debt" is "debt". When you take out shares in the club as many people did, it is not registered as debt. There may be other things such loan or donation attached to the debt. But the precise details are not recorded.

There is something odd, including the high loss relating to the accumulative P/L. Whether or not you transfer money to another account within the COA, the final P/L value will not alter as it is made up of all of the account sub-totals, whether plus of minus.

That is why I suggest at the Fans meeting, this issue needs to be raised and the Board need to answer why Russell made one statement and then present accounts to Companies House which seem to differ. If they think the accounts are correct, then what was Russell talking about? Alternatively, if Russell was correct, why do the accounts appear to differ to a point where shareholders may be very concerned. If they believe that they both agree, then help us all understand why we are mis-reading things. That is all I ask.

I will be better placed when the 2013/14 accounts are released by Companies House which I believe has to happen by end Feb-15.

The Board may fall back on non-disclosure of the accounts as modified in their memorandum of administration. But if they value their fans, they may want to choose to start being open with them.

[The Captain]

now i know why you have been making "strategic" postings recently.

[sooty]

Dec 29, 2014 10:15:12 GMT @paulriley said:

I have to disagree Sooty. The accounts were submitted by the Board. It is sufficient evidence to support my comments as it is in satisfying the English legal process administered by Companies House(you wrote "I certainly don't know any detail or have any evidence to support your concerns Paul"). The rest of the business world would find this interesting. Also "debt" is "debt". When you take out shares in the club as many people did, it is not registered as debt. There may be other things such loan or donation attached to the debt. But the precise details are not recorded.

There is something odd, including the high loss relating to the accumulative P/L. Whether or not you transfer money to another account within the COA, the final P/L value will not alter as it is made up of all of the account sub-totals, whether plus of minus.

That is why I suggest at the Fans meeting, this issue needs to be raised and the Board need to answer why Russell made one statement and then present accounts to Companies House which seem to differ. If they think the accounts are correct, then what was Russell talking about? Alternatively, if Russell was correct, why do the accounts appear to differ to a point where shareholders may be very concerned. If they believe that they both agree, then help us all understand why we are mis-reading things. That is all I ask.

I will be better placed when the 2013/14 accounts are released by Companies House which I believe has to happen by end Feb-15.

The Board may fall back on non-disclosure of the accounts as modified in their memorandum of administration. But if they value their fans, they may want to choose to start being open with them.

Then I agree Paul......if the info you point out is related to the same moneys/debt that Russell talked about.....then there is a...erm....vacuum. I would be seeking an explanation/clarification as it is easy to misunderstand who was saying what about what!!x
The reason I haven't got the same knowledge is cos I don;t read 'jargon'....soz!x Never have and delegate such things to those who eat it up.....each to their own!x I get the gist from your assertions and credible references...backed with knowledge I have of events that are say....unresolved....as far as i;m aware.....and is good enuff for me mate!x When is the Fans Forum?

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[Deleted]

Thanks Sooty. One day we will meet. Until then, I hope the shareholders of Histon Football Club are receiving the facts. What I present is based on HFC submissions to Companies House. Examining the details has raised my eyebrows, particularly following the statement made regarding the debt status last season by a Mr. Russell Hands, who I believe was a board member at that time. It would be reasonable to conclude that he was in possession of the financial facts of the club at the time of making the statement in public.

This is where the challenge occurs. Mr. Hands was party to the contents of the financial statement that was send to Companies House. At the same time, he publically made the statement that the debt has been almost cleared.

What ever proves to be the facts, the situation provides concern for a number of parties, both inside and outside of the limited company.

For many of you, this is purely an off-field concern and is not part of the good work that is being conducted on the pitch, although I have to concede that one can affect the other.

[ewstute]

It's all speculation until the 2013/14 accounts are submitted and viewable. When there is the fans forum it can be brought up and discussed with the board. Without the latest accounts it's all speculation. There are many thoughts and theories possible from accounts over a year old.

[marxian]

Russell made several statements about the debt being cleared, but he speaks in riddles and as far as I can see there's been a confusion between 'might happen soon' and 'has already happened'. The statements made at the fans' forum at the beginning of September - concerning the share redistribution and the writing off of debt - had a little more substance but we shall have to wait until the accounts are published to see where the truth lies.

But debt or no debt, without any substantial sponsorship it is easy to see that the Club is hanging on by the skin of its teeth.

[Deleted]

Dec 30, 2014 18:30:22 GMT @paulriley said:

Great points Marxian.

Remember this - season 12/13 reported an accumulated loss of £668,814 (this is the published figure so we cannot really dispute it). If the club was to break even last season 13/14, then it would have needed to produce a profit of  £668,814 within the season. We can wait for the HFC accounts to be made publically available for inspection through Companies House. But my gut feel is that the club didn't make £668,814 profit last season. In fact many clubs at this level would have been over the moon if they could legitimately claim a profit of this magnitude.

Yes, we should wait to get the official accounts. But logic suggests that it will not be the bearer of good news.

My question to all of you is why is the Board being so secretive of the facts, like many other incidents that have happened? Having been told by Russell that the removal of the debt "might happen soon" (suggesting that good progress has been made and break even is just around the corner), then finding that the club still has a 6 digit loss, what do we do?

[ewstute]

Paul it's interesting how you know that Joy (board member?) resigned. I assume you mean Joy Mansfield who was/is on the board? It's very interesting how you would know that, I've seen nothing announced and like most others, had/have no idea.

"I remember that statement from the club ewc999. It is totally opposite to the figures submitted to Company House (which can be found on the CompanyCheck site without having to pay Companies House). " - You are using data that doesn't apply when that statement was made. The next accounting period had started when that statement was made by the board. The statement may well be correct, WE DON'T KNOW AS WE HAVEN'T SEEN THE ACCOUNTS.

As you said yourself we don't have access to the revenue, so who knows what the true figures are.

As I have previously said, it's all speculation until we see the latest accounts and people hear from the board or Brian about what's going on. You do seem to be scare mongering. I am sure if you were to look at the account for clubs in the Souther Prem and Conference North/South I'm sure there will be clubs in as bad or worse financial situations than Histon. If you truly are a fan, then get involved and help the club improve it's financial situation. Every little helps as they say. If the club really has made a loss of just under £3mill since 2009 then by rights the club should have been wound up and gone under, as there is very little chance it will make that back now. As I just said above, if you're truly a fan then get involved and help. You seem to have some business/accountancy knowledge.

[ewstute]

Dec 30, 2014 17:48:13 GMT marxian said:

Russell made several statements about the debt being cleared, but he speaks in riddles and as far as I can see there's been a confusion between 'might happen soon' and 'has already happened'. The statements made at the fans' forum at the beginning of September - concerning the share redistribution and the writing off of debt - had a little more substance but we shall have to wait until the accounts are published to see where the truth lies.

But debt or no debt, without any substantial sponsorship it is easy to see that the Club is hanging on by the skin of its teeth.

Good point about the sponsorship. Hopefully the club are doing all they can to address that as we will lose the money from City renting the ground at the end of the season. The club does have some good selling points, like the youth policy and setup etc. So there are selling points to use.

[Deleted]

ewc999,

Joy Mansfield
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Let me answer the bit about Joy resigning from the Board. Its all publically available if you go looking for it.

1. If you look on the directors list on the Histon FC web site, you will see that Joy has been removed and Lynn Kemp has been included: www.histonfc.co.uk/directors.php

2. On the Companies House website Joy resigned on 11/09/14 companycheck.co.uk/company/05694326/HISTON-FOOTBALL-CLUB-LIMITED/directors-secretaries. It can also be confirmed on the webpage www.companydirectorcheck.com/joy-janet-mansfield
One may wonder why the club didn't announce this, although they have just recently updated the website to reflect this change.

Transparancy of HFC finances
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Regarding the financials, you are right about not having access to the 13/14 accounts at this time, and I have repeatedly stated this. But I equally pointed out that some £600,000 profit needs to have been made in the same season to reach break even. Let's see if this is the case when we have access to the latest submitted accounts. I think this may be particularly relevant to shareholders.

Yes I am using a previous set of annual accounts (12/13) and trying to project what needs to be done to make them fit what we have all heard. It's a normal way of estimating the business in the absence of information, and in this case it seems realistic to assume that the accounts for 2013/14 will not show a £600k profit for the year (this is the key point). But let's put it to the test when we have the required account details. Unfortunately we will have to wait until after February to know what we can reasonably estimate now.  From what I remember, 2013/14 was not a healthy year in which we can expect to see reasonable profit (again an assumption, but I feel it is a realistic one)

I don't think I am scare-mongering. This site is particularly focused on anything to do with the club. I just want the facts and I want to understand on behalf of other shareholders what is actually going on off the park. People have invested varying degrees of their hard earned money into the club with the good intention of improving their destiny. Whereas with most other companies, shareholders get to understand the financial performance at its AGM, or through shareholder communications. In HFC's case the Board has gone further and actively blocked any attempt to provide financial information through its recently modified company Memorandum (may I ask why was that needed and doesn't it sound odd. You invest money in the club but cannot find out how well they are doing financially? How do large sponsors feel about paying sums of money and not knowing whether their name will be tied to a company about to go bust, if this is the case?).

As you correctly point out, there are other clubs at this level that are in a similar weak financial position. But not all of them withhold the details. Some clubs even publish their accounts on the web site for all to view. So what is the big secrecy at Histon FC? If we knew, maybe we could help them, or be more sympathetic to their efforts.

Does anyone else get the feeling that there is a lack of communication going on? Incidentally, potential investors of any substance (main advertisers, sponsors, etc) will typically want to have sight of the club's financials, in the same way that some of its shareholders also do. This is not uncommon.

[docksam]

I seem to remember a couple of years ago a match was cancelled because, I believe, there
was a fear that Histon FC could be seen as trading while insolvent.

If the figure of £600k debt is anywhere near correct then how near are the club to being insolvent?

Do HFC own the ground and what is it's worth?

[Deleted]

Good question. Let me provide you with some background information and possibly offer you a course of action which you may decide to take up with the HFC Board at a future AGM or a fans forum.

1.   Histon football Club Limited (5694326) is a subsidiary of Histon Football Club Holdings Limited (724684) with registered office at 3 School Hill, Histon. Russell Hands is still a director of this company. It has very little value with net worth around £10,000.

2.   There was also a Histon Football Academy (6901344) until dissolved recently (2013?). Again it had little value, but served as a useful contained business with its own positive finances until closed (is anyone aware that this took place? Was there any communication about it from the club to the local community?).

3.   The land was donated to Histon Holdings for the purposes of recreation, but it is difficult to see where this fits within any of the related accounts. Stands etc. and items built upon this ground are probably included within the 5694326 company accounts (but this is just an educated guess). Certainly there were issues around the recent removal of the classroom hut (and depending upon whether it was considered as a donation or a loan would affect how it was treated in the accounts - so it opens up further questions as to the accuracy of the accounts.

Like the P/L issue, there are further facts that would make me feel uncomfortable until I can identify how they have been treated within the accounts. For example, how is the donated land covered, etc? How much profit/loss did they make in 13/14, etc.

4.   Also there seems to be a communication gap over the Academy company 6901344. Why was it dissolved? Do people know about it? The company was keeping its head above water financially and it had its own accounts which would enable people to make donations in the knowledge that it was going purely towards the development of youngsters. Whereas now, that same donation may end up covering debts and the much admired U18 lads could suffer.

I think these are a few of the questions to put to the Board at the appropriate time. Behind the scene appears to remain muddy.

I will now be closing the HFC file as the end of 2014 is only hours away. My suggestion would be for you to use 2015 to get some straight talking from the Board. No "ducking and diving" in response to genuine questions from yourselves. No "maybe's", or "this information is sensitive and cannot be discussed" as Russell has been known to offer his audience. Passing through the turnstiles at the ground helps to keep this club going. In return, you need to be respected and informed.

If a sufficient number of you gang up together, the issue could be forced upon the Board and answers obtained.

I wish you a successful New Year and I deeply want to see the on-field activities succeed and Brian Page experience glory from his never ending commitment and hard work.
Collectively, you are all in a good position to get to the bottom of the off-field activities. I hope I have highlighted a few details and some of their background. Because without understanding the problems, it is generally impossible to provide the right solutions for success. And I know you can be successful. You all have the passion and a voice to make it happen. I believe you have a HFC supporters trust which may also be able to help you.

Best wishes for 2015.

Yours,

Paul